On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

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Expand view Topic review: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Queen SMiLE » Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:51 pm

富野は信用してはいけない。ガンダムは常に日本の出生率を抑制することを目的としていた。
少しでも注意していれば分かるはずです。

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Meru » Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:44 pm

Krizzx wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:23 am
Meru wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:41 pm
Certainly, Krizzx should be held accountable for his unmanly spinelessness
Subarashii!
Image

You've lost me.

If you referring to me refusing to argue with with the dude throwing insults and making false claims, then there is simply nothing more to discuss on my end, because that is a cut off point for me anytime, anywhere with anyone.

His post is irrational, but even if it wasn't, having to scream insults and profanity at a person in an argument is a solid indicator that I am dealing with a person who is either low intellect or has mental issues. Its arguing with emotion rather than evidence and I don't do emotional arguments.

I posted several links of people quoting Yoshiyuki Tomino, the original creator of Gundam, in interviews stating his own rationale and intent. Dude just flat out handwaves the most solid evidence available and claims that its not what it is. Then he proceeds on a psychotic, screaming, insult filled rant. I'm not wasting my time arguing that shit. LMAO! He lost my respect and placed himself on my shit list with the first insult. His post is not grounded in reality to begin with since it all followed a false claim. Arguing against fallacies validates them where they would otherwise have no validation. In other words, if the premise is false, then so is all that follows it.

Good luck with that nonsense. I'm done with it and him. If you want to be booty buddies with him, then you too.
I don't want to be booty buddies with him thank you very much.

I think you misunderstood his premise. The question of the artistic intent of Tomino is almost beside the point here. He was attempting, admittedly with coarse language, to get you to think about the lack of interest in divining said intent from the work itself in favor of pre-defined, ill-fitting ideas. Or outright claptrap. He was saying that the "interviews" you linked were guilty of the same and went to the trouble of explaining how.

I think if you could see things more impartially you'd realize you came across like somebody sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalala I'm not listening". That's why I said what I said.

Somebody calling you rude names might make them rude, but it doesn't make them wrong.

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Laugh at the Moon » Sat Jan 20, 2024 12:17 pm

Image

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Laugh at the Moon » Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:28 am

In other words you found it too complicated to follow. Why not just admit it? Nobody seems to have had difficulty getting the gist of what he said except for you.
I understand that it must be difficult not having a balding Occupy Wall Street teachers union faggot over your shoulder scanning the lines of the post with his finger and helping you to sound the words. Being out in the world and having to meet thoughts half-way is a big responsibility. You are free to abdicate it and take the position of "I'm not reading dat shit" but don't try to act like the bigger man here.

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Krizzx » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:23 am

Meru wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:41 pm
Certainly, Krizzx should be held accountable for his unmanly spinelessness
Subarashii!
Image

You've lost me.

If you referring to me refusing to argue with with the dude throwing insults and making false claims, then there is simply nothing more to discuss on my end, because that is a cut off point for me anytime, anywhere with anyone.

His post is irrational, but even if it wasn't, having to scream insults and profanity at a person in an argument is a solid indicator that I am dealing with a person who is either low intellect or has mental issues. Its arguing with emotion rather than evidence and I don't do emotional arguments.

I posted several links of people quoting Yoshiyuki Tomino, the original creator of Gundam, in interviews stating his own rationale and intent. Dude just flat out handwaves the most solid evidence available and claims that its not what it is. Then he proceeds on a psychotic, screaming, insult filled rant. I'm not wasting my time arguing that shit. LMAO! He lost my respect and placed himself on my shit list with the first insult. His post is not grounded in reality to begin with since it all followed a false claim. Arguing against fallacies validates them where they would otherwise have no validation. In other words, if the premise is false, then so is all that follows it.

Good luck with that nonsense. I'm done with it and him. If you want to be booty buddies with him, then you too.

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Meru » Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:41 pm

Certainly, Krizzx should be held accountable for his unmanly spinelessness and I don't want to take us off course again, but I also don't want this masterpiece to get lost in the epic flamewar. In fact, we can see some similar things going on re: "The American Gaze":
FAILions wrote:So forget about the robots, about the political intrigue, about the 1970s animation you love to hate, about all of that, and watch this show with only this in mind: these are kids forced to grow up, the same way any of us are. Opposed to them is Char, 20 years old, who refuses to make the compromises necessary to become an adult and ends up living as a child forever. This is the anime that shows you how to reconcile your teenage self-importance with the unforgiving impersonal adult world, how to weaponize it and make it a light that never goes out rather than a burning engine that hurts to come near.
Subarashii!

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Laugh at the Moon » Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:24 pm

Actually you are a pussy, gabriel. I just read what you said after quoting you and I think you're a fag now instead. (even though I think your MegaTen posts are good)

"I think what he's trying to argue"

How is the post confusing? You can just read it and know what he was saying. Among other things: "anti-war" is a nonsensical concept.

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Laugh at the Moon » Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:15 pm

gabriel wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:57 pm I think what he's trying to argue is that the "anti-war" motif is almost implied in any kind of war story since war naturally leads to loss of life, tragedy etc. going as far back as the illyad, and that reducing the piece to "anti-war, toxic masculinity" is a disservice to everything else tomino was trying to say
This is obvious and a good deal less important than what is now the main topic of this thread:
Anthony wrote:YOU ARE MORE INTERESTED IN DRAWING YOUR AUTHORITY FROM OTHER RETARDED NON JAPANESE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GUNDAM LOOKING AT IT FROM OUTSIDE THAN TOMINO HIMSELF. EVERYTHING YOU HAVE LINKED ME IS OTHER PEOPLE INTERPRETING TOMINO (even when it's his words, if you can't understand how that works you really are a PIG FUCK).
Why derail?

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by gabriel » Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:57 pm

Krizzx wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:31 pm
anthony wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 2:29 am

You fucking pig. This is such an awful, lazy, self-serving, complacent post. I ought to spit on you. I am genuinely disgusted and mad at the internet.

Did you even notice that almost EVERY SINGLE PIECE LINKED is NOT AN INTERVIEW WITH TOMINO? They are instead COMMENTARIES ON INTERVIEWS BY RETARDED FAGGOT BAIZUO LIKE YOURSELF, OR NOT EVEN THAT, LISTICLE-TIER 300 WORD "COMMENTARIES" ON GUNDAM AS AN ANTI-WAR WORK IN WHICH ALL THEY SAY IS "GUNDAM IS AN ANTI-WAR WORK". THIS IS HOW MEDIA ILLITERACY WORKS. THIS IS HOW WORKS GET COMPLETELY BACKWARD REPUTATIONS IN THE MASS MIND. YOU ARE ALL SO SURE OF YOURSELVES AND IT RESTS ON FUCKING NOTHING.

Why don't we work through this. Starting with the "alltheanime" guy. Is it an "anti-war" work? That's simultaneously a meaningless and loaded question. You didn't address the key substance of my post, which was asking what the fuck that means. Instead you just repeated it like a dumb animal (you pig fuck).

Is it an anti-war work? Even if we have an "unequivocal yes" according to an extremely conceptually overloaded westerner's recap of a conversation he apparently refuses to transcribe, what does that mean? What is an anti-war work? Can your pig-fuck brain explain that in a sentence which does not contain the term "anti-war"? Can you understand why I am asking you this?

Next one, you send me a less than 400 words recap of an interview WHICH IS ENTIRELY TRANSLATED AND LINKED WITHIN THIS POINTLESS "PIECE" BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE INTERESTED IN DRAWING YOUR AUTHORITY FROM OTHER RETARDED NON JAPANESE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GUNDAM LOOKING AT IT FROM OUTSIDE THAN TOMINO HIMSELF. EVERYTHING YOU HAVE LINKED ME IS OTHER PEOPLE INTERPRETING TOMINO (even when it's his words, if you can't understand how that works you really are a PIG FUCK).

Hey piggy, I actually looked at the full piece and look at the FULL QUOTE which this DUMB RANCID CUNT cropped for her own super valuable and not pointless "piece". She is totally a real journalist and not a RETARDED WHORE WHOSE LIFETIME OF "writing" WILL BE OF LESS VALUE THAN THAT OF THE AVERAGE NICHE GAMING FORUM POSTER.
Finally, he referenced the public's perception of the military as "cool."

"There's nothing cool about it," he said. "After all, war must not happen. However, unfortunately we will never be rid of war thanks to the delusions of those who yearn for it."
Unfortunately WE WILL NEVER BE RID OF WAR. Whose interpretation does that sound like? Mine or yours? Yes, he attributes this to "delusions" here, but in another interview (one you linked but clearly didn't use as more than an affirmation of what you already believe) he refers to war as fuelled by subjective and conflicting notions of "justice". You can say that this is a negative view of war if you like, you can call this "anti-war", but again, what does that mean? If you acknowledge that war is a part of us what does it mean to be "anti-war"? It's like being "anti-sad". It's completely fucking retarded. THINK YOU DUMB BASTARD.

This is from Soranews.
―What’s your reason behind depicting the war from both sides in the Gundam series? Also, did you ask people who have experience about war for the production?

T: Those who grew up in the 1960s have at least a minimal understanding of the memories retained by Japanese people about the war that happened 20 years ago. Besides that, I was able to observe what could be called military history. Those were my basic resources.

At the time, most war accounts were from the viewpoint of one side. However, when you think about how a battlefield is made up of a few hundred or a few hundred thousand people amassing on each side, if it weren’t for both sides standing up for their justice, such a thing as a battlefield probably wouldn’t even come into existence.

Since most of these stories were written from one standpoint, I felt it would be nice to have a story showing both sides from an overhead angle. And after that it was making the TV series a long one, even though it’s a robot anime. I supposed the war setting would provide a lot of material to depict for both sides, and in Gundam, I aimed to create a story capturing both allies and enemies.

Especially since anime is something people usually watch at a younger age, if you only tell about the principles and the position of one side, you will inevitably end up influencing their thoughts in a sense. This had me concerned, which was the other reason I put great care into looking at the situation—war—from a high angle.
And then
―Are there anti-war sentiments in the first generation Mobile Suit Gundam, where you acted as supervising director?

T: Of course. Absolutely true.
Now, idiots like you will run off with that one line, and proudly proclaim that the work IS "anti-war", but again, what the fuck does that mean? Especially in light of everything else that he's saying in interviews? I know what retarded westerners think when they hear "anti-war", they're running on an outdated marxist notion that war is a kind of collective insanity which will be cured by collective social therapy and justice. And Tomino is old, so fucking old that he came from a time when Marxism was actually believed as a plausible interpretation of history, not just adopted as a pseudo-intellectual affectation by transsexuals.

But Tomino, and his host, do not say what is meant by this. I think coded into this question and its curt response is a tacit realisation that the thought doesn't mean anything. It can't go anywhere. He effectively just asked "are there bad things associated with war in Gundam?" which a child could answer for him. Yes, people die and suffer. War brings bad things. What of it? "Anti-war sentiments". What is an anti-war sentiment and what does that mean? WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? I AM JUST ASKING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER BECAUSE YOUR REPLY TO MY FIRST POST WAS ONE OF THE MOST OFFENSIVELY DUMB AND ARROGANT THINGS I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Okay, next piece, from Inverse. This is really where I became sure that my reply would have to be full of mean words. Are you aware that this piece doesn't even put up a pretense of speaking for Tomino? What you linked me is a glorified myanimelist review by some faggot named Rafael Motomayer in which he just spews his retarded western jew-programmed communist projected image of what Gundam is into the nobodycares trash-journalism sphere for 500 words. Another waste of oxygen.

Think about the piece of this you linked. How is there any authority to it? Why should I care? How does this convince me? It's literally just some faggot's opinion on a zero-prestige toilet paper e-rag. WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU LINKED THIS? IT SEEMS OBVIOUS TO ME THAT IF YOU WERE CAPABLE OF LINKING THIS YOU WEREN'T THINKING AT ALL. IF YOU DON'T RESPECT ME I'M NOT GOING TO RESPECT YOU.

Tomino's Gundam(and his other mech anime like Ideon, Aura Battler Dunbine and Round Vernian Vifam) were always most prominantly anti-war at their core. Showing the human cost of war was the reason his anime tended to have so many important character deaths leading to him being given the nickname "Kill'em all Tomino" by fans.

You can want Gundam to be whatever you like, but Tomino wanted it to be anti-war as its primary goal. He has stated as much "MULTIPLE TIMES"
DO YOU THINK HITLER WAS NOT AWARE THAT WAR HAS A "human cost"? Tomino clearly wants Gundam to be MANY THINGS. You are the one who WANTS it to be something, and you are the one who has the LIMITED understanding for that. If you watch an entire Gundam series and all you have to say is "anti-war" you might as well not have watched it all. The ZOGbeam has scrambled you. You look at anything with a gun and your programming kicks in, all you have to say afterward is "that was a good anti-war piece. It showed me the human cost of war. It made me think a lot about the individuals who get caught in between." Everything you say about Gundam could be about basically anything. All you seem to be able to process are basic plot beats (who is killing or fucking who) and none of it means anything, in that part of your appreciation you just throw down this giant synthetic slab of "anti-war".

You are MEDIA ILLITERATE. FUCK YOU. THIS REPLY IS MORE THAN YOU DESERVE.
All of those except one were quotes and interviews with Tomino. You're psychotic response makes it clear thats its a waste of time trying to explain anything to you, though. LOL!
I think what he's trying to argue is that the "anti-war" motif is almost implied in any kind of war story since war naturally leads to loss of life, tragedy etc. going as far back as the illyad, and that reducing the piece to "anti-war, toxic masculinity" is a disservice to everything else tomino was trying to say

Re: On the "wokeness" of recent Gundam

by Laugh at the Moon » Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:17 pm

Krizzx wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:31 pm All of those except one were quotes and interviews with Tomino. You're psychotic response makes it clear thats its a waste of time trying to explain anything to you, though. LOL!
This is so typical. Somebody is unable or unwilling to address the substance of what somebody said so they resort to calling them a psycho or schizo.
Pathetic. Rather a poor showing from you here Krizzx.

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